The Value of NBIMS = The Value of BIM?

The primary focus of the NBIMS-US™ is to provide open standards to transform the currently inefficient and ineffective  life-cycle management of the built environment…  Is this not the same value provided by BIM?

This transformation is accomplished through the creation and exchange of building information modeling (BIM) information and management processes.  Elements included include reference standards; outlining classifications of data and processes, data exchange formats, requirements for many different types of information exchanges and practice standards; which outline practices and workflows for data modeling, project execution, and robust feedback on success or failures so that assumptions are quickly improved. The metrics by which these open standards are to be evaluated include: total cost of ownership vs. first costs, impacts upon organizational mission, sustainability, life-safety, utilization, up-time, project timelines, fewer change orders, fewer legal disputes, ….

Goals, Objectives, and Benefits of NBIMS and BIM:

  1. Reduce the total cost of ownership of the built environment in concert with the mission of an organization and its relationship to the environment via timely, accurate, re-usable information and associated enhanced decision support capability.
  2. Enable collaboration and information sharing among all shareholders via established products, methods, and information formats.
  3. Front end information gathering, planning, and decision-making to have the greatest positive impact in the overall design, procurement, construction, operations, and decommissioning process, taking advantage of collaborative, integrated project delivery.
  4. Information development and sharing via consensus documents that select a common path forward when multiple divergent paths were once available
  5. Build a growing community of practice which allows progress to be made built upon previous levels of agreement
  6. Share information with software vendors as well as other product and service providers to build solutions that supports a consensus agreement of practitioners
  7. Identify specific reference standards that are used for BIM
  8. Documents “best practices” to potentially become standard practice for creating and managing information be re-used and re-purposed

Building Owner Perspective

  1. How can I better optimizing building performance to contribute to improving overall performance (e.g. financial, environmental, organizational, operational efficiencies) across the lifespan of my physical assets.
  2. Where can I find process documentation and contract language to cost-effectively develop and consistently deploy efficient construction delivery methods, enable high quality and quantity work at a reasonable cost.

Contractor Perspective

  1. An understanding of how to develop long lasting relationships with Owners, AEs, Subs and leverage BIM and associated optimized construction delivery
  2. How to perform more projects that provide a more predictable revenue stream and a reasonable profit margin.

A/E Perspective

  1. Participation in emerging efficient project delivery processes to better acheive design excellence, meeting project schedules and exceeding client service expectations.
  2. An understanding of how to develop long lasting relationships with Owners, Contractors, BPMs …and leverage BIM and associated optimized construction delivery
  3. How to perform more projects that provide a more predictable revenue stream and a reasonable profit margin.

Business Product Manufacturer (BPM) Perspective

1. How can I make my products available to designers and contractors so that they fit in with BIM project delivery processes

2. How should I format my products as BIM objects (e.g. level of graphical detail and business properties) so they are most useful by designers and contractors

3. I am interested in getting designers and contractors to specify and purchase my product

ALL:

1. How to use BIM for specific construction tasks (e.g. cost estimating, material procurement, digital fabrication, valuation of in-place construction, commissioning and handover, safety management)

2. How to mitigate risk.

3. How to organize my organization and project teams to take advantage of BIM processes and technologies.

4. How to participate in emerging efficient project delivery processes to focus on design excellence, meeting project schedules and exceeding client service expectations.

5. I am interested in optimizing staff resources, project profitability, maintaining relationships with my clients and finding the next job

Ballot Cover Letter Statement:

The National BIM Standard is a consensus document, where many ideas are brought together, presented to a variety of people representing different parts of the industry, discussed, debated, and ultimately subjected to the democratic process to determine which ideas rise to the stature of inclusion.

facility-life-cycle-technology-and-process-roadmap1-300x172BIMF - Building Information Management Framework

Related docu,ment – http://fire.nist.gov/bfrlpubs/build04/PDF/b04022.pdf – Cost Analysis of Inadequate Interoperability in the U.S. Capital Facilities Industry Michael P. Gallaher, Alan C. O’Connor, John L. Dettbarn, Jr., and Linda T. Gilday

The “I” for Information if Building Information Modeling or Life-cycle Facility Management

While articles and discussions continue about Facility Management and BIM, in reality they are virtual synonyms.

Facility management is a profession that encompasses multiple disciplines to ensure functionality of the built environment by integrating people, place, process and technology. – Definition of Facility Management – IFMA

Building Information Modeling (BIM) is a digital representation of physical and functional characteristics of a facility.  A BIM is a shared knowledge resource for information about a facility forming a reliable basis for decisions during its life-cycle; defined as existing from earliest conception to demolition. – NIBS

In order to achieve either efficiently I argue that Information and Process must be shared in a consistent, mutually understood format among all stakeholders of the built environment: Owners, AEs, Contractors, Sub-contractors, Business Product Manufacturers, Building Users, and Oversight Groups.

The problem remains, however, that many don’t understand the multiple knowledge domains or competencies associated with the life-cycle management of the built environment, nor how to integrated them.  What is even worse, is that some of those that do understand are unwilling to share that information due to perceived issues with doing so.

NBIMS and similar efforts are steps in the right direction.  NBIMS attempts to consolidate and communicate information requirements, models, and associated usage processes, with an “open industry” approach.

Owners must clearly push for BIM and Life-cycle Facility Management.  Why?  Simple…they pay the bills and it is in their best interests to optimize their return on investment (ROI).  That said, Owners can’t do it alone.  By the very nature of the industry, all stakeholders must collaborate.  Unlike an airplane, or car… buildings are around for 50-100 years, have multiple uses, and can be adapted to changing situations.. also a far greater number of suppliers and service providers are involved, as well as a virtually infinite number of configurations.

 

Here’s are quick graphic of just a few of the areas, competencies, and technologies involved:

BIMF - Building Information Management Framework

 

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Construction Disruption – BIM, Cloud Computing, and Efficient Project Delivery Methods

By Peter Cholakis
Published in the March 2013 issue of Today’s Facility Manager

Emergent disruptive technologies and construction delivery methods are altering both the culture and day-to-day practices of the construction, renovation, repair, and sustainability of the built environment. Meanwhile, a shifting economic and environmental landscape dictates significantly improved efficiencies relative to these facility related activities. This is especially important to any organization dependent upon its facilities and infrastructure to support and maintain its core mission.

The disruptive digital technologies of building information modeling (BIM) and cloud computing, combined with emergent collaborative construction delivery methods are poised to alter the status quo, ushering in increased levels of collaboration and transparency. A disruptive technology is one that alters the very fabric of a business process or way of life, displacing whatever previously stood in its place. BIM and cloud computing fit the profile of disruptive technologies, individually, and when combined these stand to create a tidal wave of change.

BIM is the life cycle management of the built environment, supported by digital technology. While a great deal of emphasis has been placed upon 3D visualization, this is just a component of BIM. The shift from a “first cost mentality” to a life cycle cost or total cost of ownership is a huge change for many. Improving decision making practices and applying standardized terms, metrics, and cost data can also prove challenging. An understanding and integration of the associated knowledge domains important to life cycle management is required, resulting in what is now being referred to as “big data.”

Cloud computing is also a disruptive technology, and it’s one that impacts several areas. The National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) definition of cloud computing is as follows, “Cloud computing is a model for enabling ubiquitous, convenient, on demand network access to a shared pool of configurable computing resources (e.g., networks, servers, storage, applications, services) that can be rapidly provisioned and released with minimal management effort or service provider interaction. The cloud model is composed of five essential characteristics, three service models, and four deployment models.”

It is perhaps helpful to define cloud computing in terms of its benefits. Cloud computing enables far greater levels of collaboration, transparency, and information access previously unavailable by traditional client/server, database, or even prior generation web applications. Multiple users can work on the same data set with anyone, anywhere, anytime, in multicurrency, multilanguage environments. All changes can be tracked to “who did what” within seconds (potentially the best form of security available), and information is never deleted.

The disruptive technologies of BIM and cloud computing will accelerate the adoption of emergent construction delivery methods and foster new frameworks. Design-bid-build, the traditional construction delivery method for decades, is inherently flawed. As a lowest bid deployment it immediately sets up adversarial relationships for involved parties. Owners prepare a solicitation for construction projects based on their understanding of them1, with or without third-party A/E assistance, and in most cases they go out in search of the lowest bidder. Then without a thorough understanding of the owner’s facility, bidders base their responses on the owner’s solicitation, plans, and specifications. Owners typically allow a period of time for bidders’ questions and clarifications; but the quality of this interchange is at best questionable if based solely on a written scope, plans and specifications, and/or a meeting with suppliers.

Design-build, arguably a step in right direction, falls short of bringing all stakeholders together. More responsibility of design and construction is shifted to the contractor and/or A/E. However, the dual level participation structure doesn’t assure the interests of all parties are equally addressed. Furthermore, the design-build process is typically reserved for major new construction projects versus the numerous sustainability, repair, renovation projects, and minor new construction projects typically encountered by facility managers (fms).

Because BIM brings together previously disparate information into a framework that enables decision support, using the technology requires a collaborative construction delivery method. The integration of the domain knowledge and robust processes required to allow fms, A/Es, and other stakeholders to achieve heightened levels of information sharing and collaboration is enabled by methods that include Integrated Project Delivery (IPD) and Job Order Contracting (JOC).

Key characteristics of these emergent construction delivery methods include: choices based on best value; some form of pricing transparency; early and ongoing information sharing among project stakeholders; appropriate distribution of risk; and some form of financial incentive to drive performance.

Both IPD and JOC allow, if not require, owner cost estimators and project managers to “partner” with contractors, subcontractors, and A/Es to conceptualize, create, cost, prioritize, start, and report upon projects—in the very early phases of construction.

IPD, JOC, and Simplified Acquisition of Base Civil Engineering Requirements (SABER)—the U.S. Air Force term for applying JOC practices—are practiced simultaneously by a growing number of organizations and supported by digital technologies. These construction delivery processes are embedded within software to allow for rapid, cost-effective, and consistent deployment as well as the associated level of collaboration and transparency.

BIM and cloud computing are disruptive technologies that will accelerate the adoption of emergent construction delivery methods such as IPD and JOC. Construction delivery methods set the tone and level of interaction among project participants and can be viewed as the management process framework. When supported by BIM and cloud computing, the life cycle management of the built environment, and the associated management of big data, can be expected to become commonplace for many construction projects.

1303 profdev a 150x150 Professional Development: Construction Disruption

Cholakis

Cholakis is chief marketing officer for 4Clicks Solutions, LLC, a Colorado Springs, CO provider of cost estimating and project management software. With expertise in facilities life cycle costs and total cost of ownership in various market segments, he is involved in numerous industry associations and committees including the American Society of Safety Engineers, Association for the Advancement of Cost Engineering, Society of American Military Engineers, BIM Library Committee-National Institute for Building Sciences (NIBS), and National Building Information Model Standard Project Committee.

1 “The Art of Thinking Outside the Box;” Vince Duobinis; 2008.

Is Cloud Computing More Important than BIM?

Is focus upon the 3D component of BIM an unfortunate distraction?

BIM, Building Information Modeling is the ability to create a dynamic information model of the built environment (above and below ground, inside and out, horizontal and vertical physical infrastructure) for use in all real property related activities:  concept,  rapid prototyping, planning, design, engineering, construction, physical and functional condition monitoring and management, financing, capital reinvestment, insurance, facility management, renovation, repair, sustainability, utilization, leasing, valuation, procurement, sale and decommissioning  with appropriate shared, secure, and collaborative information access and use.

The advent of Cloud Computing, combined with the cost to capture, store, and process information  falling to near zero,  is enabling new capabilities for secure, real-time collaboration.

The altered world landscape relative to the built environment is upon us all.  In addition to technology changes that are altering the ways we interact and conduct business on fundamental basis, there are economic and environmental imperatives.   All of which lead to the AECOO (Architecture, Engineering, Construction, Operations and Owner) sector and its stakeholdings needing to collaborate to achieve better, quicker outcome,  at less cost,  and with less risk.

Key challenges to BIM in terms of its true potential, the life-cycle management of the built environment, include:

- The development of uniform standard process, terminology, and technology environments for the new BIG DATA world , encompassing  all  ‘built environment related knowledge domains, competencies, and activities.   

- Clear organization and classifications of information and associated access  rights and rights to use, enabling appropriate, uniform basis intra and international use.

- Workflow-based  Cloud-computing services environments, and plug-ins that are vs.  monolithic traditional software frameworks which are web enabled via virtual server, or even traditional 3-tier web applications such as .NET.   4-tier applications are needed with the ability to link and reuse  information in any manner  relative  to identity/location, building, area, floor, room, occupancy, use, physical and functional conditions,  standardized and actual costs (material, equipment, and labor), et al… – to provide common ‘highly secure’  models for short and long term decision support.

– The acceptance and increased use of collaborative construction delivery methods such as Integrated Project Delivery (IPD) and Job Order Contracting (JOC).  The latter a form of IPD specifically targeting facility renovation, repair, sustainability, and minor new construction projects.

-  AUTHENTICATION, ACCESS CONTROL, COLLABORATION, AND STANDARDS …  4Clicks Solutions is about to release a powerful new Cloud Computing solution called CEASEL. It focuses upon transparent construction cost estimating and efficient project delivery.  Each user to controls their own ‘domain’ and access policies (ie ‘who’ can access ‘what’ data, ‘when’ and ‘how’ ). Data in NEVER deleted and  ALL user access and activities are tracked.. .the best form of security.    “Data independency” and  appropriate access for all asset owners, managers, and service providers is supported.   Project development time is reduced because users don’t need to create an identity store and access control system for each project, and projects, estimates, etc. can easily be updated and re-used.

New authentication methods or new kinds of user credentials can be adopted by upgrading just the authentication service.  Associated contracts,  projects, and estimates don’t need to be re-coded.  Changes to access control policy can be made quicker and more easily because it is consolidated in the one place. 

Dedicated and focused security service leads to better overall security – compared with each organization having a part-time resource for security management. 

Security improvements benefit all projects at the same time. 

Less time and effort is devoted to security administration as administrators only need to understand and use one security framework rather than a different one for each project.

Errors are reduced because there is no duplication of identity data and access control policy.A unified view of identity and access control policy is achieved for each user, without breaching the security of other users.

Simplified , auditing and reporting.

If you are interesting in being a pilot user of this new capability, please contact me directly.

 

Cloud Computing, Construction, Engineering, Architecture and Productivity

Cloud computing is a more than catalyst for change, it is a DISRUPTIVE TECHNOLOGY.  Cloud computing will drive significantly enhanced productivity within the Architecture, Engineering, Construction and Facility Management Sectors by enabling the consistent deployment of integrated project delivery methods.   Owners, Contractors, Architects, Engineers and stakeholders of the built environment will benefit if they focus upon CHANGE MANAGEMENT and how to best leverage cloud computing.

  1. Collaboration – True cloud computing (vs. cloud-washing, or simply posting legacy application to the cloud) lets users  work concurrently on projects in real-time (milliseconds)… virtually anyone, anywhere, anytime.  Multi-language and mult-currency, etc. can easily be implemented.
  2. Security – Information is NEVER deleted.  This is potentially the best form of security available.   “Who” does “What” and “When” is always tracked and changes can be “rolled back” at any time by authorized administrators.  Furthermore, only changes are transmitted vs. full data sets and even these are encrypted.
  3. IP Protection – Despite all the “hype” to the contrary, it is YOU, the user who determines how, when, and where to publish data.   For example, you can maintain information in your private area, publish as read only to specified members within a private cloud…or publish to all members in a private cloud, or publish information to all members in public cloud and enable rights to use and modify data.
  4. Visualization -  Despite the pervasive misunderstanding of BIM and unfortunate focus upon 3D visualization, DATA visualization and the associated development and implementation of the colloborative life-cycle management of built environment are the benefits provided by BIM.  Cloud computing will accelerate data visualization and transparency among all stakeholders of physical infrastructure and promote performance-based processes.
  5. Agility – Our work and natural environments are changing at an accelerated pace.  Rapid deployment, monitoring,  and the associated modification of processes and policies is becoming increasingly important.  Cloud computing deploys process faster than any other method currently available.   There is no longer a need to rely upon internal “IT” for deployment or applications specific changes.
  6. Mobility – It is neither cost effective, nor efficient to have everyone working in offices or specified work settings.  Resources need to be tapped from multiple locations enabling use of “the best of the best”, and resources with localized resources and/or capabilities.   Cloud computing allows direct, transparent access to local resources while also communicating centralized processes and procedures.
  7. Centralization of Information – While information can be scattered among several data centers, it also can be instantly consolidated to provide global management in support of an organization’s mission as well as associated, efficient local action.
  8. Business Continuity – True, Internet access is required, however, would you rather store your information at your location and risk catastrophic failure, or have your information at multiple locations designed with redundancy, power backup, etc.?

BIG DATA and EFFICIENT CONSTRUCTION METHODS (Integrated Project Delivery, Job Order Contracting), CLOUD COMPUTING, and BIM are here to stay, are you ready?

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Roadmap

Roadmap

BIG DATA

BIG DATA

BIM Evolution

In the long history of humankind, those who learned to collaborate and improvise most effectively have prevailed.
– Charles Darwin

BIM, the life-cycle management of the built environment supported by digital technology, requires a fundamental change in how the construction (Architects, Contractors, Engineers) and facility management (Owners, Service Providers, Building Product Manufactures, Oversight Groups, Building Users) sectors operate on a day-to-day basis.  

BIM, combined and  Cloud Computing are game changers.  They are disruptive technologies with integral business processes/practices that demand collaboration, transparency, and accurate/current information displayed via common terminology.

The traditional ad-hoc and adversarial business practices commonly associated with Construction and Facility Management are changing as we speak.    Design-bid-build and even Design-Build will rapidly go by the wayside in favor of the far more efficient processes of Integrated Project Delivery – IPD, and Job Order Contracting – JOC, and similar collaborative programs.  (JOC is a form of integrated project delivery specifically targeting facility renovation, repair, sustainability, and minor new construction).

There is no escaping the change.   Standardized data architectures (Ominclass, COBie, Uniformat, Masterformat) and cost databases (i.e. RSMeans), accesses an localized via cloud computing are even now beginning to be available.   While historically, the construction and facility management sectors have lagged their counterparts (automotive, aerospace, medical, …)  relative to technology and LEAN business practices, environmental and economic market drivers and government mandates are closing the gap.

The construction and life-cycle management of the built environment requires the integration off several knowledge domains, business “best-practices”, and technologies as portrayed below.   The efficient use of this BIG DATA is enabled by the BIM, Cloud Computing, and Integrated Project Delivery methods.

Image

The greatest challenges to these positive changes are  the CULTURE of the Construction and the Facility Management Sectors.  Also, an embedded first-cost vs. life-cycle or total cost of ownership perspective.  An the unfortunate marketing spotlight upon the technology of 3D visualization vs. BIM.   Emphasis MUST be place upon the methods of how we work on a daily basis…locally and globally  − strategic planning, capitial reinvestment planning, designing collaborating, procuring, constructing, managing and operating.  All of these business processes have different impacts upon the “facility” infrastructure and  construction supply chain, building Owners, Stakeholders, etc., yet communication terms, definitions, must be transparent and consistently applied in order to gain  greater efficiencies.

Some facility life-cycle management are already in place for the federal government facility portfolio and its only a matter of time before these are expanded and extended into all other sectors.

BIM, not 3D visualization, but true BIM or Big BIM,  and Cloud Computing will connect information from every discipline together.  It will not necessarily be a single combined model.  In fact the latter has significant drawbacks.    Each knowledge domain has independent areas of expertise and requisite process that would be diluted and marginalized if managed within one model.   That said, appropriate “roll-up” information will be available to a higher level model.   (The issue of capability and productivity marginalization can be proven by looking a ERP and IWMS systems.  Integration of best-in-class technology and business practices is always support to systems that attempt to do everything, yet do not single thing well.)

Fundamental Changes to Project Delivery for Repair, Renovation, Sustainability, and New Construction Projects MUST include:

  • Qualifications Based or Best Value Selection
  • Some form of pricing transparency and standardization
  • Early and ongoing information-sharing among project stakeholders
  • Appropriate distribution of risk
  • Some form of financial incentive to drive performance / performance-based relationships

BIM Implementation – The Business Value of BIM in North America Multi-Year Trend Analysis and User Ratings (2007–2012)

The Emperor is still Naked!

At the end of the day, “The Emperor with no clothes” best describes the this BIM “SmartMarketReport”.   Having run surveys for over 30 years, the first thing you learn is that you must ask the right questions.   This report is evidence of what can happen if you don’t.

“McGraw-Hill Construction predicted that BIM would reach a tipping point in North America in 2008, even though industry-wide adoption at the time was only 28%. Now, in 2012, 71% of architects, engineers, contractors and owners report they have become engaged with BIM on their projects, a 75% growth surge over five years.”

If you believe that 71% of AECOs are engaged with BIM on their projects, I have some swampland for sale.    First and foremost, what is BIM?  BIM is the life-cycle management of the built environment support by digital technology.  What percentage of the market is doing that?  Less than 5%.  And more likely less than 1%.

It may be just me, but I am tired of the “hype” and nonsense associated with BIM, especially the emphasis upon 3D visualization.   Life-cycle management of the built environment requires collaboration, common lexicon/terms/information/cost data, efficient project delivery methods and so much more than pretty pictures.  Cloud Computing, combined with true BIM, or as some call Big BIM, and other market drivers will eventually cause a cultural and business shift in our sector.   Until it occurs, how many of you wish to continue to walk around naked?

If you are interested in how true BIM, Cloud Computing and efficient project delivery:  IFMA WorldWorkplace2012 Presentation.

Project Delivery Methods of the Future – IFMA World Workplace 2012 Paper and Presentation

IMFA – Presentation

Project Delivery Methods of the Future - IFMA WORLDWORKPLACE 2012 – San Antonio, TX  

Job Order Contracting (JOC) and Integrated Project Delivery (IPD) converge with Cloud Computing, Big Data, and BIM.

Project Delivery Methods FINAL FOR PRESENTATION

IFMA OCTOBER 2012

BIG DATA, Life-cycle Management JOC, SABER, Cloud Computing and More!

BIM Life Cycle Operations IFMA Community of Practice Business Meeting – BIM for FM

BIG DATA – BIM Framework

See more at: http://www.gosee.tv/bimlco/

Project Delivery Methods FINAL FOR PRESENTATION

IFMA OCTOBER 2012

What is Job Order Contracting? What is IDIQ?

What is an IDIQ?

Indefinite delivery/indefinite quantity (IDIQ) contracts has been a useful tool in federal government acquisition for many years.

IDIQ contracts had historically been used only as single award contracts to procure services or supplies until the Federal Acquisition Streamlining Act (FASA) of 1994, noting the value of multiple award contracts.   Additionally the court system determined that IDIQ contracts were applicable to construction and architect-engineering services, provided the selection of contractors and placement of orders are consistent with the Federal Acquisition Regulation Part 36.

Multiple forms of both multiple and single award construction IDIQ contracts are available as well as software to enable rapid implementation and consistent deployment.  Examples of multiple awards are multiple award construction contracts (MACC) and multiple award task order contracts (MATOC). Single awards include job order contracts / job order contracting (JOC) and simplified acquisition of base engineer requirements (SABER). SABER is the US Air Force implementation of JOC.

Multiple awards result in individual job tasks for which all awardees compete and are negotiated and priced per the specific requirement. Single awards and multiple awards are typically priced using detailed line item cost estimating provided specific to the IDIQ.  Commercial, industry standard unit price books may be use, such as RSMeans Cost Books or  “custom” IDIQ price books.  Both may be referred to a Unit Price Book (UPB), or an IDIQ price book/guide.   It is important that both the Owner and the Contractor have unit line item cost estimating capability. It is generally regarded as “best practice” and may even be a regulatory requirement that the Owner does their own internal estimate (sometimes referred to as an Independent Government Estimate – IGE).  Some Owners for specific forms of IDIQ, such as JOC for example,  may elect to “outsource” or subcontract the JOC program to a third party for a fee (typically a percentage of the overall JOC program annually).  In this instance the third party acts as an “owner’s agent” and works with the Contractors directly, vs. Owner “hands-on”  participation. The latter is not recommend, nor consistent with “pure” JOC program implementation. It may however be the only option for Owners with limited technical estimating and/or project/program management capabilities.

Additionally, multiple awards are forms of design-build for complex projects, typically $750,000 to $5 million. Single awards involve minimum design for non-complex projects that typically range from $2,000 to $750,000. However multi-year JOC/SABER programs can easily exceed $300 million.  Many JOC/SABER and IDIQ contacts involve a base year and three or four year options. This means that the owner/contractor relationship is long term, with no need to re-solicit for five years, a potential benefit for all parties.

Construction IDIQ contracts provide a streamlined means to complete projects with benefits for both the government ‘/ public agency (DOD, non-DOD Federal Government, State/County/Local Government, Airports, Education, Healthcare, and the commercial business (Contractor/AE).